46 Reader Comments

1. Angel on
   

   Any criticism people level at others for their lifestyle choices is more likely an expression of the criticizer’s own insecurity, rather than a rational argument against the lifestyle in question. (I’m talking about interpersonal interactions, not stuff like this blog.)

   “You and I aren’t models, why deprive yourself?” Well, either way, you are depriving yourself. You’re either depriving yourself of health, or of tasty, empty, addictive calories.

   If good health was as instantly addictive as donuts or french fries, we’d all be skinny!

   Good post!
2. Son of Grok on
   

   As I responded on another forum to JE, “Who is really missing out”? The out of shape guy is missing out on being able walk without weezing, playing a pick up game, feeling good, being healthy, etc. The only thing the healthy guy is truly missing out on in my opinion is a shortened lifespan and trips to the doctor.

   The SoG
3. Adam Wilk on
   

   Scott,
   Great post, man.
   Deprivation? Eh. I think the underlying issue is loss of freedom, or having to take an extra few seconds to think about what to have for breakfast, lunch and dinner, especially living in the world we do. The bubble-like existence wouldn’t be as apparent if ALOT more people chose to live low-carb, or Paleo, or however you wish to describe it. Sometimes being on the fringe can be lonely, even if the reward is good health–for example, I’d love to bring a pizza home after work on a Friday evening–what could be better? But I don’t, because I know I can’t–I’m a carbohydrate addict–so I struggle with this so-called ‘loss of freedom’ to do whatever I want–I have to work, work, work at it.
   Despite all the mounting evidence out there, I find it incredibly hard to not miss what I used to dine on regularly, and I do find myself resentful that despite improved health, weight loss, and increased self-esteem, I’m one of those folks who has a hell of a time processing all carbohydrates. I know it, you know it, and the researchers know what sugar-laden foods do to the human body. Now, if ingesting carbohydrates/junk foods made you sick on the spot (forget about those struggling with diabetes for a second) or caused real discomfort, perhaps that would be more of a deterrent against feeling deprived.
   That’s part of the junk food curse–refined carbohydrates are just as addicting as many powerful, legal and illegal drugs out there–but carbs just kill you very, very slowly, so you’re not even aware of what’s going on inside after your body begins to break it down.
   I haven’t even begun to talk about the availability of junk food, either, which is a whole other subject–but you know you haven’t far to travel to obtain any kind of junk food that tickles your fancy at the moment.
   Sorry the long comment, am enjoying your blog, Scott.
4. Wenchie on
   

   I agree with Angel and wanted to comment on Adam’s comments.

   When I do stray from my paleo eating – I do get sick – within an hour usually. I am sure it’s individual but I am sick within an hour of straying. Perhaps it’s how long you’ve been paleo and how strick you are with it. Similar to building up a tolerance.
5. Rob on
   

   Wenchie,

   That’s a good point to mention- I thought about a friend recently who ate junk food- pizza and pasta about every day, nary a vegetable and rarely some fruit, plenty of diet soda, the whole thing. He functions well enough- he can go to work or school and make it to social events. If I have that stuff, it knock me out. I have a slightly higher level of tolerance than you, maybe, but not much. I feel awful very soon after eating wheat usually (though I continue to indulge periodically), and if I have some cake or sugary dessert, I break out within a day and feel sluggish and heavy. And so I wondered: is he actually better adapted and more hearty than me, since he can eat this stuff and do alright?

   What I concluded, or think now, anyway, is no: he just doesn’t realize how slowed down he probably is. I have a better sense of what it feels like to be healthy and fit, and so I perceive my ill health as much more stark than he does, since he’s there all the time. Kind of like the idea that fish barely notice water since they’re enmeshed in it.

   I’ve also noticed that if I have a few day long binge on bread and junk, the visceral reaction is diminished after the first meal or two, and I accommodate to that level of sluggishness, I suppose. So I think it might actually be a sign of robust health to react so strongly to junk food. Maybe it signals that I’m cued in enough to my body, and its homeostasis is sufficient enough that a clear dip is strongly felt.

   Anyway, I like this post, Scott. I’ll second your notion that feeling good is the reward, and to act unhealthfully, however culturally encouraged and easy it is, is really more of a deprivation than passing on brownies;. And I have on some level a sense that we might even have a responsibility to be robust and healthy: to do otherwise is to abandon our role within our communities. I wouldn’t argue this point strongly, but it feels right to me that self-care is more than about me and my vanity, but at least in part about my capacity to do service on the part of my tribe.

   How ’bout that, name callers?
6. nathan on
   

   part of the thing about exercising is it lets you eat more garbage AND put the garbage towards a positive ends. after doing max effort deadlifts and military presses this morning it’s time for pizza.

   w/r/t the “fat acceptance” movement. i’m from the south. i am pretty okay with chubby folks. but a year or four ago, i go into this parking lot when i was visiting my parents, and look at high school kids almost ten years younger than me who are overweight and on their way to obesity. that was the moment when i realized this thing was getting out of hand.

   it’s like this:

   0. potato is a starch, not a vegetable
   1. weight loss isn’t hard. eat less garbage and move more
   2. in the words of one of our bed-hopping founding fathers, eat to live, don’t live to eat
   3. no one is going to accuse you of asceticism if your plate is loaded with duck comfit or short ribs instead of brownies
   4. load up your plate with enough meat and vegetables to scare everyone around you, that’s my usual motto for company meals
7. Keith Norris, Theory to Practice on
   

   I think all the reasons you mention in your post are spot-on, Scott; However, I’d like to add one more. I find additional leverage — and satisfaction, as well, I have to say — from knowing that the success I reap (health, vitality, great body composition, etc.) via living the Paleo lifestyle and following a sound fitness program cannot, under any circumstances, be bought with common currency. All other “status symbols” in our society — the car, the crib, et al — can be had if you’ve got the funds (or as the recent financial crisis has proven, even if you don’t). No, the success we reap can only be “purchased” with intelligent and diligent application of the Paleo lifestyle. Call me an elitist, but I find great satisfaction in that fact.
8. Chris on
   

   Great post. Of course there is an element of vanity in training / eating well, but that is not in itself a bad thing. Virtually all that we do has some element of selfishness but (to draw from Ayn Rand) there is a virtue to selfishness.

   I train and watch what I eat for lots of reasons but primarily, deep down at least, there is a teenager who was obese and poor at sports. He was OK academically and socially but really wanted to be fit and to look good, so at 15 I started training. For some years i wanted to be a bodybuilder but saw that those I knew who were took drugs. I didn’t want that.

   Over the years other reasons have developed – fitness for sports, overall health, a fascination for the subject – but to be honest for all the talk of functional fitness….I still want to look OK. And I am proud that I am now fitter at 40 than virtually all of those lean sporty lads I knew 25 years ago.

   Is it elitist? it can be

   Sometimes there is an element of superiority that can creep into our personalities. When I see fat people eating cakes I can think that they are getting what they deserve. Which is not always pleasant and I am aware of the danger of being a “know all”. People have a choice and the information is out there and available as never before.
9. Tom Parker - Free Fitness Tips on
   

   When I started working out there was an element of vanity to my routine. I wanted to build some muscle and improve my appearance. I therefore began by following the typical bodybuilding advice of eat as much food as you can and lift like crazy. However, as I got older I began to realise that I have a naturally small frame and I wasn’t realistically going to be able to pack on huge amounts of muscle.

   Since then my fitness goals have changed. Improving my overall health and fitness levels is now a much bigger priority for me. I still agree there is an element of vanity in what I do because as you say “there’s not a person out there that doesn’t give a hoot about how they look”. However, it is not the main driving factor behind what I do.

   BTW I don’t think there is anything wrong with a moderate vanity. It can after all drive you to workout harder, eat better etc. Like you say you shouldn’t be an asshole about it and rub it in people’s faces but there’s nothing wrong with taking personal pride in your improved appearance.
10. Chris - Zen to Fitness on
    

    This is a superb post, Thanks Scott for addressing an issue which I am sure plays on all our minds at some point or another……
    I really like Keith’s (TTP) view on the topic, its true that none of this can be bought and it all has to be earnt. When looked at in that perspective the lifestyle many of us lead becomes far more satisfying all be it in elitist way….
    Others who question a healthy lifestyle must be accepted as a part of life as its always going to crop up, I guess its just about becoming comfortable with the lifestyle you choose to lead as well as not thinking about it too much as stressing over food/exercise can undo all the good work….
11. ItsTheWooo on
    

    Am I the only one seeing a ghastly skull in that picture? I realize it is a woman looking in a vanity, but every time I see the picture I’m freaking out about the skull with cobwebs all over it.

    I do think part of it is vanity, or at least some sort of personality/psychological disorder issue.

    Regarding the argument that it is not vain to want to return to “man’s natural state”, that would be true if it required no extra effort to obtain this “natural state”. In today’s modern world, it requires some measure of snobbish, leisure time and wealth flaunting ability in order to return one to “man’s natural state”.
    And, I would further argue there is nothing natural about being “cut” and “ultra lean”. The emaciated muscley physiques sported by madonna and others, dubbed “healthy” by those who chase them, are anything but healthy or natural. It is not healthy or natural to have abnormally hypertrophic muscles and abnormally depleted body fat.

    This is, however, a sign of having lots of free time and lots of wealth, as well as coveted personality traits such as restraint, discipline, foresight to make and stick to a plan, and an ability to delay gratification. In short, it is a manifestation of narcissism. People who receive narcissistic gratification from food/body preoccupation feel superior or “good” compared to others. It makes them feel special (specialness is key to narcissism).

    There is another aspect to obsessional eating and body molding, and that is the use of such behaviors to isolate and fixate one’s attention away from reality. This is usually found in people with disordered eating (whether or not they acknowledge it). If the behavior serves as a tool to isolate one from the world (life, emotions, progression of time), it can be considered in the eating disordered spectrum. It may also potentially indicate autistic spectrum disorders, or anxiety disorders (which often leave the individual anxious and hypersensitive, in need of a focusing obsessional retreat from the chaos of the world, especially one involving organization and structure and repeatable routines… disordered eating / food and body preoccupation offers these things).

    Note that narcissistic type body interest and autistic/anxious/hypersensitive type food & body interest are not mutually exclusive. Both are usually present, but one typically predominates. The litmus test is whether or not it is more gratifying to have the RESULTS of obsessional eating, or if it is more gratifying to actually ENGAGE in the obsessional eating. The former indicates primary narcissism whereas the latter indicates hypersensitivity/anxiety/autism.

    So, my argument is that a preoccupation with appearance /food intake is rarely about “honoring” man’s natural state, because it requires an entirely commitment of self in order to achieve it. It is NOT natural to appear “natural”, so we have to consider why it is so important to day in day out to behave in a way that is consistent with molding the body and eating only certain things in certain ways. we have to ask why a desire to honor man’s natural state is so important. It almost sounds religious. Honoring god makes sense, because hypothetically god is the ultimate. People who honor god do not attempt to BECOME god, but rather respect how not-god they are (although religious preoccupation does often manifest as a result of delusional malignant narcissism usually, I’m speaking purely of benign religiosity the sort experienced by normal people)…

    In a way, the desire to “honor” man’s natural state is probably a manifestation of extreme narcissism. It is assumed that “natural man” Is constitutionally better than the caricature of the flabby, weak and wheezing “modern man”, after all… better, superior, special. Doesn’t one feel like a god among men if he fancies himself as transcending time, remaining pure and unblemished by toxins corrosion and corruption of modern life? More human than human, by becoming the ultimate human?

    Note I am preoccupied with weight as well as eating, so this is less a judgment of anyone here. All of the above can potentially apply to me.

    I consider myself primarily the autistic/hypersensitive sort and this is the reason I am preoccupied with freakish eating. I am also quite narcissistic, but this is less primary and it is secondary to my isolation and lack of “touch” with other people.
12. Wayne on
    

    I think someone mentioned this above, but there is so much more to eating right and working out than just looking/feeling good. For me, the reason I choose to live this lifestyle is more functional than anything. I want to be able unload groceries from the car without having to make 10 trips. I want to mow the lawn without having to take a nap afterwards or stop halfway through because I need a break. I want to be able to walk up a flight of stairs and not be out of breath like most of my coworkers. I want to be able to hold my kids without having to put them down after two or three minutes because my arms are tired. That’s why I workout and eat like I do, the fact that I look and feel better is just a bonus.
13. Rusty - Fitness Black Book on
    

    Scott,

    Great followup to this philosophical question. I agree with your take on helping people who want the help…

    The nice thing about a site like yours is that most people will find it through a Google Search and they are actually seeking more information on the topics you write about. Nothing wore than those guys that walk around the gym giving advice that people DON’T ask for.

    Leading a healthy life also means less strain on family members as you get older. You will also enjoy physical activities much later into life. I turned 39 last week, so I have at least one more year of fun left!

    Rusty

    PS: Were you serious that we aren’t suppose to walk around with our shirts off all the time? What about doing push ups before hitting the beach? When it hits 65 degrees or higher, it is time to lose the shirt! I kid, I kid…that stuff is ultra-dorky!
14. Eugene Thong on
    

    Scott,

    Awesome post. Some thoughts:

    Striving for a fit and healthy lifestyle because it’s a standard you hold yourself to (irrespective of others’ choices) or because it enables your lifestyle (i.e., athletic performance) isn’t really elitism. It’s the physical expression of your personal values.

    “Recognize that when people get on you for not eating fried potatoes or cake, it’s not necessarily because you’ve done something to be an elitist, but because your choice puts theirs in stark contrast.”

    Maybe it’s callous to point this out, but if your healthful behavior makes others feel uncomfortable, it says more about themselves (and their struggle with their personal values) than about you.

    Maybe we should start a fit-acceptance movement:)
15. Kelly the Kitchen Kop on
    

    There are a couple other big reasons why I try to live a more healthy lifestyle than most of those around us:

    1. As a Mom, it started to be quite obvious that something was going very wrong. Childhood obesity, childhood diabetes, more and more cases of childhood cancer, just to name a few. Hopefully I changed how we eat when my kids were young enough to avoid who knows what diagnosis that could have been right around the corner. (I worry about all the crap I let our teen have before I knew better.)

    2. I’m only 41, but I already see friends and family in our age group at the doctor’s office a lot and on all sorts of drugs, in their 40′s! It isn’t so much about living longer, but about hopefully living *better* into our old age.

    What drives me crazy, though, is when overweight members of my family look down their noses and say, “You’re taking this a bit too far aren’t you?” It takes great self control not to ask them, “Let’s compare images in the mirror and then decide.” Or they’ll tell me how they eat low-fat this or sugar-free that, and they think my way of eating is nuts, and again, I force myself not to ask, “And how’s that workin’ for ya?” Obviously, I don’t say these things, but I keep hoping and praying they’ll come around one of these days.

    By the way, for all you paleo/no-carbers out there, I’m doing a no-carb/low-carb carnival tomorrow, hoping to get some good new meal ideas – I hope you’ll pop over and share your favorites: http://kellythekitchenkop.com/2009/01/get-your-low-carb-ideas-ready-spread-the-word.html

    Kelly
16. Eric on
    

    Scott,

    Again, great post! It is almost weird how we think the same, to a tee even… It wouldn’t be the first time that people ask me questions where I provide them answers to the best of my ability and then, coincidently, that subject is broached in a similar manner within that same month, on this very blog!!!! I am not kidding! It’s happened so many times! It’s almost scary!!!

    My only point of contention and minor disagreement relative to this latest post might be with regards to the “fat acceptance movement” i.e., is it a good thing or a bad thing? I fully agree that no one should be discriminated against, be they black, gay, Asian, female, or otherwise. But fatness, in the majority of cases, can be relegated to the person’s lifestyle habits (very few people can actually be classified as obese due to reasons completely outside of their control… OK, I do admit that the present-day food industry and how the latter is regulated isn’t helping – I’m referring here, among others, to Michael Pollan’s books- but one can still be much more reasonably fit than “average”, even if following the US/Canadian Food Guide and getting off their lazy asses…) and shows a lack of disrespect in more than one way. Disrespect for the one and only body you have, disrespect for your progeny (either by being a bad example to them, or by shortening your lifespan and running the risk of not being there for them in the distant future) and disrespect for society, which has to take on the burden, medically, for taking care of all your ailments, the risk of which increases due to the person’s lifestyle preferences.

    As for “IsTheWooo’s” comments, I have to say it is quite insightful… But, I have to disagree with the point that “appearance/food intake is rarely about “honoring” man’s natural state, because it requires an entirely commitment of self in order to achieve it.” It only requires an effort insofar as you recognize that our present situation (I’m talking about the educated, financially at ease, average person reading up on this stuff), without this “effort”, dictates that you would not be honoring man’s natural state. This, before the advent of civilization, Nature made sure to take care of. You either adhered to this principle (or were forced into it), or you didn’t live on to tell others. Today, one as to educate himself first (and somehow skim and filter through all the not-so-good advice out there), and then make the appropriate choices. I wouldn’t call that vanity. Personally, and I agree with Wayne’s comments here, it’s first and foremost to feel like everyday activities do not turn into daunting, if not impossible tasks… The rest is secondary in nature. And, I hope, it will allow me to share this knowledge with others, for many more years

    I think Marianne Williamson’s words prove to be very adequate in this case: “Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented or fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of god. Your playing small (insert “unhealthy”) does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking (insert “becoming unhealthy”) so that other people won’t feel insecure around you… As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same… our presence liberates other.”
17. Rob Archangel on
    

    Eric,

    I read that Marianne Williamson quote again just yesterday for the first time in many months. Way to go synchronicity!
18. warren on
    

    just a quick anecdote. after losing 30 pounds and putting on some muscle i attended a 4th of july bbq with friends i had not seen in a while. many compliments came my way but then also questions. when i admitted to cutting back carbs and eliminating sugar while increasing whole veg/fruit and fat/protien, i was met with protest and near derision. they were certain that all i had done was eat less and exersised more, that my diet must be bad for me, and everthing in moderation was the key. when the host produced homemade cookies i took one so as not to be rude. this resulted in me having to pull over on the way home and get coffee because i was so fatuiged from the sugar crash. i felt like i wasnt forcing my lifestyle on anyone but simply being honest had offended my friends.
19. Alex on
    

    I don’t know about your question, but could you post the tahini-lemon sauce recipe you mentioned?? Sounds delicious!
20. Angela on
    

    Thanks for this post. It was a great read.

    I found this quote that I thought could add to the answer…

    “When you begin to understand,…. that paying attention to your fuel and movement isn’t just so that you can wear a smaller size, but it is critical for doing more of the work that God had called us to do. It isn’t just vanity… but it is a whole new life that God wanted to reveal to us.”
    Leanne Ely – Body Clutter
21. Timber on
    

    It is vain to pursue looking good, BUT it is NATURAL to be vain (based on current definitions)- not sure if anyone mentioned that yet.

    Aren’t we all programmed to create as many successful copies of genes before we die. Living the lifestlye that would assert our alpha traits is inherently elitist, thats the point, sexual selection in humans was, most likely, for the majority of our existence based on physical appearance and ability. Doing seemingly unneccessary things (eating properly and exercising) to ensnare the greatest partner(s) is natural.
    I recall (I think from the Third Chimpanzee) that the male deer (or similiar frollicky animals) have been observed dancing dangerously close to predators to impress the females. I think that book also mentioned excessive drinking or smoking to prove that you aren’t vulnerable to dangerous things. So on the same means that we are considered vain-you can find vanity in just about any trait anyone does.

    You should feel better than everyone else if your body is better conditioned than everyone else’s- that’s the natural reward system that insures the best genes survive. It might have lost its place in today’s society but we haven’t lost our programming.
22. Jenni on
    

    Eating is an incredibly personal act, and its intrinsic tie to life makes it a highly emotional subject. The cultural importance of shared meals, taking communion in Catholocism and the symbolic nature of various foods during Jewish holidays is evidence of this crazily sacred relationship humans have with food. A philosophy of eating is bound to take on a religious tint, and people following a Paleo/low-carb existence do often start to sound like holy rollers—myself included! A holier-than-thou (is that the same as vain/elite?) attitude sometimes crops up (as Chris conceded), even in the above post where the USDA exercise guidelines are equated to getting “off their lazy asses” (Eric). And then, of course, there is the opposing negativity of friends/family, like Warren described, which I, too have experienced. Jealousy is ugly, and the sheer amount of misinformation that most people have been exposed to makes everyone think they’re experts.

    Is eating Paleo elitist? Well, I hate to get epidemiological, but how many of the top bloggers and top blog commenters on the subject aren’t middle class, middle-aged white men who have an athletic background (Sisson, De Vany, Kustes, O’Donnell, SoG etc.)? There are definitely exceptions to be found, but this is certainly not an ideology heavily circulating anywhere but among the upper-middle class. Is eating Paleo difficult? For many, hell yes. Witness recent posts around the blogosphere about the Princeton study about the addictive nature of carbohydrates. Does it feel amazing to consistently eat Paleo for an extended period? Definitely. Doesn’t everyone care about looking hot? I certainly do. I think Scott’s point is well taken; live and let live. However, when people see you look good or skip desert/bread, they either opine, or want advice, or both. I think we all need to consider how to be diplomatic about having those conversations considering the emotional connection people have to their belief systems about food. We want to get people on board about their health—we don’t want to alienate them.
23. Son of Grok on
    

    “There are definitely exceptions to be found, but this is certainly not an ideology heavily circulating anywhere but among the upper-middle class.”

    Astute observation. When I was struggling financially, my main concern was not WHAT I was eating but rather THAT I was eating. In being more financially secure, I was able to stop putting so much focus into putting food on the table and could start focusing on putting good food on the table. Even now though, when I look at my weekly grociery bill… I cringe. I wholeheartedly think that eating paleo affordably is a very real possibility, however, I think you are right… it definitily is not the first thing on someones mind (certainly wasn’t on mine).

    I think also that I can contribute much of my problem with obesity to a change in financial status. When I was scraping for food, I could not get enough of it to get fat but once I could afford it… I still ate the same crap food, just far more of it. I am so glad I found this lifestyle but you are right.. it was probably due in some part to luxury that I could.

    If I were to lose my job tomorrow, I would still eat paleo… but only because I know what I do know.

    The SoG
24. Laura on
    

    I was a great believer in just living life and eating what you please. I believed that diet and exercise as a lifestyle is vanity.

    Then I hit my forties. I started gaining ten pounds a year. My joints hurt. I started popping Tums like candy. By January first of this year I was 51 years old and 65 pounds overweight. I am on medication for high blood pressure. My joints hurt. My brain was in a continual fog. I was always tired.

    I decided to start a paleo-style lowcarb diet on 1/1/09. Since then I’ve lost 6 pounds, I haven’t needed any Tums after the first day, and after 2 days my joints stopped hurting. My brain is clear. And I woke up this morning clear-headed and full of energy.

    I can’t wait to see what the future holds. It can only get better!

    (And to “ItsTheWoo” – I only saw the skull. I did see the woman until I read your comment.)
25. Laura on
    

    (That last sentence should read “I didn’t see the woman until I read your comment.”)
26. Ruth on
    

    Fantastic post! I thought it was so good, and it was so meaningful to me personally, that I wrote about it on my own blog. Here is some of what I said:

    “For me, becoming grounded in my own physical body was the latest missing piece of my own spiritual puzzle. For a long time, I looked down my nose on people who were “preoccupied” with fitness, judging them to be “shallow”. And, some fitness buffs probably are.

    But, when I started getting out there on the trail, walking, then jogging, then even running, I discovered that it didn’t just change my physical fitness, it changed my life.

    At first, I was tempted to attribute these life changes to being out in nature. And I do think that has more than a little to do with it (much better than working out in a gym, me thinks).

    But, upon further reflection, I realized that I am a whole human being, not a collection of separate parts.

    So, even if the motivation for me becoming more fit was initially mostly about vanity (I admit it!), it yielded me so much more.

    It helped me become more independent, more self-reliant and more even-tempered. More energetic, and at the same time, more focused and calm. All of which helps me in all my pursuits, from the pragmatic to the “spiritual” (although I’m not sure the 2 are as separate as I’ve usually thought they were). And that is hardly the fruit of a “vain pursuit”.”

    Thank you for the wonderful post. I am a brand new subscriber, and I can’t wait for more!
27. FoodRenegade on
    

    For me, it’s all about *ability*. If I see a fit person, I’m not simply attracted to them aesthetically. I’m attracted to their capacity to hike up a mountain carrying a baby in the front and 50 pounds of gear on their back, their capacity to go places and do things. I’m not as fit now as I was before my second pregnancy, and I want to regain what I lost. Vanity is a hollow motivator, at least for me. I really could care less what I look like, so long as I fit into my clothes. But I do care that I can’t keep up with my husband anymore.
28. TWS on
    

    Vanity may play a role in this but my doctor put a healthy lifestyle into the proper perspective for me recently. On my retirement checkup I mentioned that I need to get fit to lead a good, long life and do the things I want. His reply was (edited), ‘it’s getting late to have a long life. But get fit to have a good death.” His point was to do the things I enjoy for as long as I can and then check-out with a minimum of pain, on a short schedule, doing something I like to do.

    Vanity or final preparation?
29. Sue on
    

    For me, being slim is confidence boosting. I don’t feel as attractive when I am overweight and it affects my self-esteem.
30. Chris on
    

    As said above, the Paleo lifestyle leads to strength and excellent health. A well developed physique is a by product. Why would you choose a lifestyle that induced sickness and limited ability? A paleo lifestyle is perfectly satisfying and liberating.

    One wider point is that whatever is said about personal vanity and motivation to train and build an awesome physique, you are judged by appearance. This is an evolutionary mechanism that NONE of us can escape!
31. Mike OD - IF Life on
    

    Ironically some of the bodybuilding people who I know who are in the best looking shape…..also have severe image issues and suffer from depression. With vanity also comes a lack of self confidence and personal image issues. That is sad. Balance and personal acceptance is key. Do it for yourself…not to impress others. If you lived in a world of all blind people would you still eat healthy and exercise? I would because it is something that brings me health and energy daily…not because I am selling tickets to the “gun show”.
32. Mike OD - IF Life on
    

    Jenni – Some may say 100% Paleo is elitist…..although I would be the first to tell you that I am in no way 100% Paleo…as I eat rice, bread, pizza and love a good Guinness (or other Microbrew). I do however also eat in moderation, have my own low carb days and know how to cycle my eating with exercise for maintaining health. It’s about health for me (and looking good comes with it). I know sugar and excess carbs lead to so many diseases and illnesses, I feel no way deprived from not eating them. Eating Paleo may seem elitist if people are too emtionally attached to a certain food that they are now being told is bad for them. To me I try to generate understand of food and it’s relationship to our health….then the person can make up their own mind on what foods to eat and when. Also it doesn’t have to be expensive…as a dozen eggs, tuna and canned salmon is cheap and easy eating.

    As for all the “acceptance” movements….I don’t care much about any of them. We should all care less about what others think of us and just move on with life being healthy and happy. Too many people want to be accepted yet that’s not the issue…happiness comes from within first, change yourself before you ever try to change the world…or you will always be lacking something.
33. Marc Moffett on
    

    Nice post, Scott. However, there is one point you make which needs correcting. You write:

    “The natural state of man is invariably lean, strong, and healthy. Look at people still living in traditional ways, look at fossil records of our hunter-gatherer ancestors…you see that there is no obesity. There is no cancer and heart disease. Bodies are long and lean, a requirement for and result of trekking for food and taking down animals stronger and faster than oneself.

    So do I think there’s anything vain about allowing my genes to express themselves properly by feeding myself good food and working out?”

    The first paragraph is entirely correct. It is a descriptive claim about gene expression under certain conditions. In the second paragraph, however, you shift to a normative/evaluative claim about the *proper* expression of genes and it is at least suggested that the first descriptive point supports the second evaluative one. But this is an instance of the naturalistic fallacy. Conversely, there is no scientific notion of *proper* gene expression. It is important to keep this distinction in mind because while you and I both value the way in which our genes are expressed relative to an environment which is similar to our ancestral one, not everybody does. That, in fact, is the very point the friend was making. He may well value the phenotype one gets from a paleolithic diet and exercise routine, but he doesn’t value it as much as he values other things (sweets and fries). Now that preference scheme may well be in some ways prudentially irrational (personally, I think it is), but that is a really difficult philosophical issue which is very little affected by the evolutionary-cum-genetic considerations.
34. Methuselah - Pay Now Live Later on
    

    Marc,

    Knowing as I do that you are an assistant professor of philosophy, I hesitate to question your take on this. Instead, I’ll just describe how I precieved the quoted section to offer an alternative view rather than necessarily a better one.

    I understand that naturalistic fallacy in this context is the incorrect assertion that because something is natural, therefore it must be in some way right or morally correct. However, my interpretation of the word ‘proper’ in Scott’s second paragraph was not in terms of rightness in any abstract sense, but rightness in an entirely functional sense. So when he talks about the proper expression of genes, I understood this to mean the expression of genes in the way for which our bodies evolved to function optimally.

    Looking at it this way, to me this was not an example of the naturalistic fallacy because there was no suggestion of ethical or moral superiority, merely an implicit assumption that if our bodies are working optimally with this gene expression then to the extent that evolution could be regarded as having provided a design, that gene expression could be described as ‘to spec’ – i.e. proper.
35. Aaron on
    

    I’ve got no desire to strut around shirtless, but I do enjoy it when people remark on how much weight I’ve lost. Is it vain to be proud of an accomplishment, one that’s very difficult for most people? Maybe a little, but I don’t see it as a problem unless you overdo it. That definition of vanity says FALSE or EXCESSIVE pride. Mainly I just want to be able to see myself in pictures without thinking, “God, I’m huge.”

    As for stress: I was far more stressed by heartburn, mood swings, fatigue, acne, and all the other symptoms of high-carb eating than I am by the need to keep certain simple categories of foods out of my diet. The guy who’s wheezing while he squeezes into two seats doesn’t realize how much stress he’s become accustomed to.

    As for deprivation: I was deprived of the ability to breathe while I tied my shoes, not to mention more physical activities. Ultimately, I expect paleo eating and a bit of strength training will give me many extra years of active life that continued high-carb eating would have deprived me of. That’s the most important thing.
36. Marc Moffett on
    

    Methuselah,

    Point taken … and I certainly didn’t mean to disparage Scott (for whom, as a regular reader of his blog, I have great admiration), but merely to caution. And the caution is warranted even in the context of your response. If you stop and think about it for a bit, it is not entirely clear what it means to say that a certain phenotypic expression of our genes is proper in “an entirely functional sense” or athat “the expression of genes in the way for which our bodies evolved to function optimally.” (It is equally unclear that there is a sensible notion of “natural design”; for some support of the claim see: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/289889) Implicitly these claims make reference to some behaviors or activities. There is no such thing as functioning optimally period, but only functioning optimally with respect to this or that action. Now, of course, if you or I value performing this or that type of action (or value looking this or that way) and getting a certain sort of gene expression helps us achieve that result, then it would be rational for us to try to invoke that sort of gene expression. This is, I think, where all of US basically are.

    But as I understood the question raised by JE’s friend, he was skeptical about the value of looking a certain way or engaging in certain sorts of actions relative to certain other things (e.g., indulging his sweet tooth). And it just isn’t clear that “paleo gene expression” is optimal or proper relative to those alternative goals and interests; in fact, it is pretty clear that it is not. And in this context, Scott’s invocation of the normative concept “proper” at the very least flirts w/ the naturalistic fallacy. (I should say “so-called naturalistic fallacy”, because as a matter of fact I think that what is natural does have, at least in some contexts, normative force–and this might well be one of those contexts; environmental preservation is another, animal rights is another.) It suggests that this is how genes *ought* to be expressed rather than, this is how genes ought to be expressed relative to certain goals. You only get the former if you have a reason for thinking that you ought to have those goals.

    And really it is this last thing that JE was grappling with. Do I have these goals simply because I want to look good and, if so, does that suggest that the goals aren’t as valuable as I thought? Specifically, does it suggest that the goals aren’t any more valuable or loft than my friends pursuit of gastronomic pleasure? Those are flippin’ hard and interesting questions.
37. Son of Grok on
    

    Methuselah and Marc use big words

    The SoG
38. Mark Hinnawi on
    

    What does a dog want? Does it want to be cooped up in isolation in an apartment all day or does it want to run around in the park and play with other dogs? It seems that most dogs seem to be happier tearing around the park chasing other dogs. The isolated one’s seem depressed. While there are some exceptions (those timid or exceptionally unruly dogs) the domesticated dog’s nature seems to propel itself into the butt smelling company of the pack, despite its many breeds. Are some dogs more comfortable at home? Probably. But what explains the behavior of all those others who are so ready to jailbreak for a chance to run wild with their canine friends.

    What does a human want? We have so many more choices. But our pack is more assertive in enforcing our choices. What to eat? Anyone who tries to eat Paleo realizes how difficult it is unless one is willing to cook. If not, we are offered the dominant, domesticated diet (DDD). Most of us have eaten the cakes, cookies, and chips that are the hallmark of our domesticated good life. And how does it make us feel? A fleeting pleasure that generally goes downhill after the first bite. A steady diet of such pleasures dulls the senses. And there is the chase to eat more to get back to the gratification offered by the first bite. And you can never really get back there, can you? There is a fatigue and listlessness associated with the DDD. It just doesn’t make you feel good. It makes you feel like that isolated dog.

    And then you go Paleo to one degree or another. Eat what the body wants, what it has evolved to want. Do what the body has evolved to do. And it feels good. You are alert, vigorous, getting through your day of work with energy to spare. You feel youthful. Something returns, maybe from childhood, battling on the playground with all your friends, and you think, this is right, this is how it should be.

    And then you look in the mirror. And you say, “Damn, I’m hot!”

    Did narcissism make this journey? Or is it just tied up with our natural desire to be selected? Could it be a by-product of the DDD? Can we say that this way is normatively better? Hell, if I know. Go ask your friendly neighborhood dog.
39. Methuselah - Pay Now Live Later on
    

    Hi Marc – you certainly didn’t come across as disparaging Scott – just highlighting, as you say, a difficult philosophical question.

    I am clearer now on your point about the expression of genes relative to certain goals and can see how there is not necessarily anything concrete on which to base the assertion that one of these goals might have more value than another, albeit that to us – Paleo enthusiasts – it might seem like a no-brainer that our goals have greater value.

    But I do wonder whether paleo living could be afforded some normative force on the basis that – ignoring for a moment the practicalities – it has the potential to make the world a better place in the same way as environmental preservation does? I refer to the immense burden on man’s resources engendered by medical care and drug research which might be drastically reduced if we expressed our genes differently….
40. fatboymuscleman on
    

    ItsTheWooo, wow, you must have a lot of time on your hands my friend, to be able to overthink this issue so much. Your post also does seem pretty judgemental and negative, and it seems like you are presenting as fact what is basically your own personal view of the world.

    Vain to be healthy? Seriously? What the hell is wrong with our world that one would think it vain to follow the basic steps to good health?

    People who think this way I suspect have some serious mental health issues.

    This comes down to the question of why are we here? If you are one of these people who is just sleepwalking through life and taking up space, then I can see how you might think that basic health is a sign of vanity.

    Think about it this way. What if we are here to do some amount of good? Lets just assume we are. If we are healthy, the amount of good we are able to do is much greater. Why? Energy levels are higher, our attitude is better, and we are less of a drain on society around us (because we are not sick all the time, etc.).

    Look at your motives. Why are you labeling someone who wants to be healthy? Why are you labeling people at all? What is there that bothers you so much? Is it forcing you to face a part of yourself that you wish to remain hidden?
41. WSB on
    

    TWS nails it for me. Done any eldercare lately? Yikes. My MIL’s existence – she can’t do anything except go to the doc and take meds. Well, just shoot me if that’s aging in America…. I want a long health-span and hopefully a long life-span, but definitely a long health-span!
42. Kevin on
    

    I think the main reason to choose your food such that it promotes good health, and do activities that promote good health is because the standard of what is good or bad for a man is that which is good or bad for his life. The reasons you give, not excessively flaunting your fitness are important but secondary.

    You didn’t get yourself in shape so that someone who you don’t care for can comment or feel envious. You did it for yourself, it is perfectly selfish, and selfishness is a virtue.

    The ones who say you should just be fat and unhealthy with the rest of us have accepted something worse than elitism, they have accepted that everyone should be average, equal, that no one should strive to be any better than anyone else in anything. This is a terrible deadly attitude to have toward life, it is a hatred of that which is good, for no reason other than that it is good.

    Run away from those people they have nothing worthwhile to offer you. Plus you can demonstrate another reason to be in shape, you can promote and protect your most important asset, your life, by leaving danger wheezing at the side of the road.
43. Jim on
    

    ItsTheWoo

    I’m not a narcissist because I want to be fit and look like a man should look. Nor do I have an eating disorder because I like spinach. As for “man’s natural state” and “modern man” and all that crap: I know for a fact that men probably shouldn’t have tits, three chins, or type II diabetes.

    You can’t go quoting your psych textbooks to laymen and expect us to understand.
44. Scott Kustes on
    

    Woo…interesting stuff. I guess the real question is, “is a bit of vanity a bad thing?” Sure, abject narcissism does no one any good. But is caring how one looks really a bad thing? It could be argued that it’s vain to think we can outdo the real food that is available to us. And then again, from a Randian perspective, everything we do is selfish and vain. Is owning a bigger house or a Mercedes vain?

    Marc, good points. Was definitely not going with “it’s natural so it must be healthy”. Rape, incest, and murder are all natural in the animal kingdom too, but I don’t think we should be engaging in those things. However, my use of “proper” is simply to illustrate the lean and healthy body type that is expressed when we eat certain foods and engage in certain activities. I think it’s awfully hard to argue that “proper gene expression” can be anything less than being rarely sick. It would be hard to argue that those that are constantly beaten down by sickness and have little energy are doing the things their body wants. Throughout the animal world, sickness is a rarity. In our world, it’s not….something isn’t “proper” about that. So the “proper” course of action is picking the path that keeps us well.

    It seems that it basically boils down to priorities. Some prioritize delicious fast foods and packaged sweets over their health and are willing to put up with the inevitable doctors bills as a result. Some prioritize working more to get a bigger house, faster car, nicer TV, etc over exercising and cooking and pay in the same way, with ill health. And some of us forgo the crap foods for the most part (our “sacrifice”) and prioritize our health and body image.

    Though, to be sure, “deprivation” can only truly be argued from one’s own perspective. So I may think someone deprived because s/he can’t walk up the steps without wheezing, has pain in his/her knees and back from carrying an extra 30lbs, and isn’t free to go out and hike around all afternoon, but that’s looking at things from my own perspective. Similarly, JE’s friend is looking at things from his own perspective….he enjoys the foods he eats and to give them up for anything would be deprivation. It’s not that he doesn’t want to be in shape. It’s that he doesn’t want to be in shape bad enough to change his habits to allow himself to be in shape.

    Good stuff and interesting viewpoints. Love it!
    Scott
45. Lauren B on
    

    Great post! I get asked this a lot too–why deprive yourself? Because eating cheesy eggs, steak, coconut milk, and full fat yogurt is SO hard, right?

    I do make a lot of primal low carbohydrate sweet treats. If you enjoy cooking and are willing to get a few specialty ingredients, you never have to deny your cravings on a whole foods low carb plan. If you’re not willing to invest the time and money in your menu plan, I could see how it could get monotonous.

    Found your blog through Mark’s Daily Apple. Am enjoying browsing the insightful content!
46. Saturday, November 7th « CrossFit Midland on
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